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	<title>Comments on: The Independent Worker&#8217;s Field Guide: Rates and Finances</title>
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	<link>http://www.randomnonsequitur.com/post/49</link>
	<description>is by Anne K. Halsall and concerns nothing in particular</description>
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		<title>By: Daniel Jalkut</title>
		<link>http://www.randomnonsequitur.com/post/49/comment-page-1#comment-222</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Jalkut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Flexibility is definitely key, especially if dealing with smaller clients.  But speaking of happiness, sometimes paying more makes clients happier. Chalk it up to human psychology but the &quot;you get what you pay for&quot; cliche is burned into everybody&#039;s brain. If Joe is *utterly* worth $75/hour, and he convinces the clients of this, then they&#039;ll be HAPPIER paying him $75 than &quot;settling&quot; for a $65 person ;)

Believe me I can relate to the difficulty of selling oneself.  But I would say it becomes less and less about silver-tonguing and more and more about speaking honestly to clients about your abilities.

In any case, when any new contractor is just getting started, it&#039;s definitely true that it makes sense to aim for maximum happiness. It&#039;s the only thing that will keep you going.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Flexibility is definitely key, especially if dealing with smaller clients.  But speaking of happiness, sometimes paying more makes clients happier. Chalk it up to human psychology but the &#8220;you get what you pay for&#8221; cliche is burned into everybody&#8217;s brain. If Joe is *utterly* worth $75/hour, and he convinces the clients of this, then they&#8217;ll be HAPPIER paying him $75 than &#8220;settling&#8221; for a $65 person ;)</p>
<p>Believe me I can relate to the difficulty of selling oneself.  But I would say it becomes less and less about silver-tonguing and more and more about speaking honestly to clients about your abilities.</p>
<p>In any case, when any new contractor is just getting started, it&#8217;s definitely true that it makes sense to aim for maximum happiness. It&#8217;s the only thing that will keep you going.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://www.randomnonsequitur.com/post/49/comment-page-1#comment-221</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 07:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.randomnonsequitur.com/?p=49#comment-221</guid>
		<description>Daniel: Interesting idea! I have never done anything like the &quot;trial run&quot; you propose, but it makes perfect sense, especially for designers (who are often plagued by the fact that their portfolios represent their clients&#039; tastes more than their own). That could be a good strategy when you like the company and want to have a long relationship with them without backing down on your rates. Or you might offer to discount your rates for this project in order to prove yourself, but on the understanding that any future work would be at the usual rate.

One thing I didn&#039;t mention, but which is very important to me, is the happiness factor. It&#039;s true that Joe&#039;s scenario in this example is not ideal, but I find juggling clients stressful and personally value a steady client perhaps more than I should (at least, for the sake of my pocketbook). That&#039;s why I would consider being flexible in that scenario.

I definitely want new contractors to understand that no matter what the scenario, they have options when it comes to negotiating contracts. If one month you want to sacrifice a little cash in exchange for lower stress or to work on a fun project, go for it. Of course, the silver-tongued among us can probably get away with better. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel: Interesting idea! I have never done anything like the &#8220;trial run&#8221; you propose, but it makes perfect sense, especially for designers (who are often plagued by the fact that their portfolios represent their clients&#8217; tastes more than their own). That could be a good strategy when you like the company and want to have a long relationship with them without backing down on your rates. Or you might offer to discount your rates for this project in order to prove yourself, but on the understanding that any future work would be at the usual rate.</p>
<p>One thing I didn&#8217;t mention, but which is very important to me, is the happiness factor. It&#8217;s true that Joe&#8217;s scenario in this example is not ideal, but I find juggling clients stressful and personally value a steady client perhaps more than I should (at least, for the sake of my pocketbook). That&#8217;s why I would consider being flexible in that scenario.</p>
<p>I definitely want new contractors to understand that no matter what the scenario, they have options when it comes to negotiating contracts. If one month you want to sacrifice a little cash in exchange for lower stress or to work on a fun project, go for it. Of course, the silver-tongued among us can probably get away with better. ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Jalkut</title>
		<link>http://www.randomnonsequitur.com/post/49/comment-page-1#comment-219</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Jalkut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 05:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.randomnonsequitur.com/?p=49#comment-219</guid>
		<description>I agree with your points in general, but your dialogue between Joe and the Client is not an ideal outcome for Joe. I spent several years as a contractor, and in Joe&#039;s position I think the tack I would take would be stick with the initial rate, but emphasize quality and satisfaction.

Rather than coming down to $65/hour, which he would then be relatively locked in to for the term of the relationship, it might make more sense to stick to the $75 figure and make it easy for the client to get comfortable with his work at a lower commitment rate.

I like the structure of a trial run for this kind of scenario.  For instance, if Joe can state with confidence that his clients will be thrilled with his work, and they need to only give him 4 hours to prove it, then they might be convinced and satisfied that spending the extra $300 was well worth it not only for this project, but for the long run.

If Joe&#039;s a liar, then they are only out $300 instead of $1500. If Joe&#039;s the real deal, then they&#039;ve got somebody who&#039;s worth the money and knows it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your points in general, but your dialogue between Joe and the Client is not an ideal outcome for Joe. I spent several years as a contractor, and in Joe&#8217;s position I think the tack I would take would be stick with the initial rate, but emphasize quality and satisfaction.</p>
<p>Rather than coming down to $65/hour, which he would then be relatively locked in to for the term of the relationship, it might make more sense to stick to the $75 figure and make it easy for the client to get comfortable with his work at a lower commitment rate.</p>
<p>I like the structure of a trial run for this kind of scenario.  For instance, if Joe can state with confidence that his clients will be thrilled with his work, and they need to only give him 4 hours to prove it, then they might be convinced and satisfied that spending the extra $300 was well worth it not only for this project, but for the long run.</p>
<p>If Joe&#8217;s a liar, then they are only out $300 instead of $1500. If Joe&#8217;s the real deal, then they&#8217;ve got somebody who&#8217;s worth the money and knows it.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://www.randomnonsequitur.com/post/49/comment-page-1#comment-217</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.randomnonsequitur.com/?p=49#comment-217</guid>
		<description>Joe: Good points. I&#039;ve never worked with a large company as an independent and I would imagine, as you say, that it is a bit of a different ballgame. You&#039;re right that you should always be billing for things like project management and communications, but it seems to me when you&#039;re dealing with the hassle of working with the corporate food chain that you end up with a lot more headaches and slowdowns that are difficult to quantify. But maybe I&#039;m just burned out and cynical about that culture. :)

Ron: You make a good point here, and I originally had that number as 3 before I adjusted it down to 2. This is because I personally started out at 3x, then found I routinely had to adjust down to get enough work, at least until I had enough experience and exposure to move back up. Depending on their industry, others may want to do this too - start at 3x and see how it goes from there. I definitely want to drive your point home that going independent should be a financially *lateral* move (or better). If you&#039;re not making as much in your new job as your old (accounting for employer expenses) you aren&#039;t charging enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe: Good points. I&#8217;ve never worked with a large company as an independent and I would imagine, as you say, that it is a bit of a different ballgame. You&#8217;re right that you should always be billing for things like project management and communications, but it seems to me when you&#8217;re dealing with the hassle of working with the corporate food chain that you end up with a lot more headaches and slowdowns that are difficult to quantify. But maybe I&#8217;m just burned out and cynical about that culture. :)</p>
<p>Ron: You make a good point here, and I originally had that number as 3 before I adjusted it down to 2. This is because I personally started out at 3x, then found I routinely had to adjust down to get enough work, at least until I had enough experience and exposure to move back up. Depending on their industry, others may want to do this too &#8211; start at 3x and see how it goes from there. I definitely want to drive your point home that going independent should be a financially *lateral* move (or better). If you&#8217;re not making as much in your new job as your old (accounting for employer expenses) you aren&#8217;t charging enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Amundson</title>
		<link>http://www.randomnonsequitur.com/post/49/comment-page-1#comment-213</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Amundson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 12:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.randomnonsequitur.com/?p=49#comment-213</guid>
		<description>The 2 multiplier may work if one has zero overhead, and doesn&#039;t mind putting in a ton of billable hours. A fully burdened employer rate is 1.5-2.5X the hourly rate depending upon overhead and such. A multiplier of only 2, pretty much means a significant salary reduction. I know you stated for folks to run the numbers and look at the budget, but my concern is folks will end up with a 3X or a 4X number and then shift downward more towards the 2 figure. I&#039;ve seen too many solopreneurs struggle or go under after a year or so, as they set their rates much too low. Unlike many other businesses, service doesn&#039;t lend itself to leverage, thus one is trading time for money on a 1:1 basis. The key imho is to start out such that one nets something pretty close to ones previous employee take home, and then build efficiencies in to do better. Otherwise, starting out with a paycut, plus the additional non billable hours can end up being pretty demoralizing, to say nothing of setting oneself up to fail. Overall though, you give a lot of good advice here, just wanted to make sure folks don&#039;t feel bad about charging enough to ensure sustainability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 2 multiplier may work if one has zero overhead, and doesn&#8217;t mind putting in a ton of billable hours. A fully burdened employer rate is 1.5-2.5X the hourly rate depending upon overhead and such. A multiplier of only 2, pretty much means a significant salary reduction. I know you stated for folks to run the numbers and look at the budget, but my concern is folks will end up with a 3X or a 4X number and then shift downward more towards the 2 figure. I&#8217;ve seen too many solopreneurs struggle or go under after a year or so, as they set their rates much too low. Unlike many other businesses, service doesn&#8217;t lend itself to leverage, thus one is trading time for money on a 1:1 basis. The key imho is to start out such that one nets something pretty close to ones previous employee take home, and then build efficiencies in to do better. Otherwise, starting out with a paycut, plus the additional non billable hours can end up being pretty demoralizing, to say nothing of setting oneself up to fail. Overall though, you give a lot of good advice here, just wanted to make sure folks don&#8217;t feel bad about charging enough to ensure sustainability.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.randomnonsequitur.com/post/49/comment-page-1#comment-210</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 00:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.randomnonsequitur.com/?p=49#comment-210</guid>
		<description>Great article!

A few little tidbits I&#039;d like to note about working with the bigger clients:

1) If they&#039;re not complaining about your rate, you&#039;ve left money on the table. Most small companies will complain about any rate, but the bigger ones will often suck up $75/hour for most projects and not even blink.

2) Larger companies expect and can afford communications, project management and such overhead to be billed and considered in the realm of billable hours. Almost any large outsourcing company includes project management and such hours as a default anymore. If you really want to get quirky, you can charge a different rate for this as an indie, but be aware that you don&#039;t have to just suck it up with the larger companies. Also consider doing all communications and project management hours as by-hour, not by-job, because they can expand amazingly fast with a large company. In those realms, you&#039;ve often got multiple people to please and communicate with and the communications overhead can expand dramatically.

3) Always keep a log of your time suitable for sharing/giving to your client. If you&#039;re doing work &quot;by the job&quot; and estimated 25 hours, and it takes you 30 - you can either suck it up and do better estimating in the future, or you can use Anne Kate&#039;s suggested &quot;if over 25, I&#039;ll bill you the additional hours&quot; clause. In those cases many businesses (especially small ones) will want to know where you spent your time. You should be using this as a defense mechanism in case your client goes wack-job on you and tries to demand you do all their changes, new ideas, and other such crap for the same original job price. It&#039;s not realistic, and keeping a log of hours can really make a difference in what you have to push back with.

It&#039;s a well known secret that most outsourcing companies nail down an estimate for an original job that&#039;s well below what you might consider reasonable, fully expecting to make it up on the &quot;change request&quot; end. I might even go so far as to suggest that some don&#039;t worry about doing crappy work (this in the programming side of work, not so much design) with the expectation that it&#039;ll increase the need for future programming efforts, and hence more work for the company in the future. Not everyone is that way - but it&#039;s worth being aware of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article!</p>
<p>A few little tidbits I&#8217;d like to note about working with the bigger clients:</p>
<p>1) If they&#8217;re not complaining about your rate, you&#8217;ve left money on the table. Most small companies will complain about any rate, but the bigger ones will often suck up $75/hour for most projects and not even blink.</p>
<p>2) Larger companies expect and can afford communications, project management and such overhead to be billed and considered in the realm of billable hours. Almost any large outsourcing company includes project management and such hours as a default anymore. If you really want to get quirky, you can charge a different rate for this as an indie, but be aware that you don&#8217;t have to just suck it up with the larger companies. Also consider doing all communications and project management hours as by-hour, not by-job, because they can expand amazingly fast with a large company. In those realms, you&#8217;ve often got multiple people to please and communicate with and the communications overhead can expand dramatically.</p>
<p>3) Always keep a log of your time suitable for sharing/giving to your client. If you&#8217;re doing work &#8220;by the job&#8221; and estimated 25 hours, and it takes you 30 &#8211; you can either suck it up and do better estimating in the future, or you can use Anne Kate&#8217;s suggested &#8220;if over 25, I&#8217;ll bill you the additional hours&#8221; clause. In those cases many businesses (especially small ones) will want to know where you spent your time. You should be using this as a defense mechanism in case your client goes wack-job on you and tries to demand you do all their changes, new ideas, and other such crap for the same original job price. It&#8217;s not realistic, and keeping a log of hours can really make a difference in what you have to push back with.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a well known secret that most outsourcing companies nail down an estimate for an original job that&#8217;s well below what you might consider reasonable, fully expecting to make it up on the &#8220;change request&#8221; end. I might even go so far as to suggest that some don&#8217;t worry about doing crappy work (this in the programming side of work, not so much design) with the expectation that it&#8217;ll increase the need for future programming efforts, and hence more work for the company in the future. Not everyone is that way &#8211; but it&#8217;s worth being aware of.</p>
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